Health and Healing  

Antibiotics vs Herbs

 If the situation is an emergency and the baby is going down fast, then  you will need antibiotics and antifungals from the vet. 

I agree with this statement about antibiotics but wonder..... living now with a highly suspected PDD bird, antibiotics are no longer an option
for him. I've been using garlic, echinacea and such with my birds for a few years now with good results when needed. 

My question is do we know for sure that synthetic antibiotics really
work faster or that much faster for the most part than the natural ones,
providing correct dosages are given? My limited experience has shown
that a lot may have to do with the dosage. For one example...my U2 when
he had aspergillosis, I insisted on giving him echinachea (also gave
garlic). At that time his vet and myself were new at this, so his vet
hesitantly looked up a recommended dosage in her medical text which I
gave to him, but I later found out after consulting with Dr. McWatters
how conservative that dose was. I never saw any change in my U2's
attitude/energy level with the vets recommended dosage. Alicia McWatters
increased the echinacea dosage and he perked up, the next day....like a
new bird, just like a bird who's been given antibiotics. I now find
this, every time I feel I need to give garlic, or echinacea etc. to my
birds, that if I give them my standard dose, they perk right up, just as
quickly as they might if given the correct synthetic antibiotics. And
with herbs, if poops have been off, they look improved the next day,
wonderful by the second or third day....as a general rule.....similar to
antibiotic treatment. 

Have there been any studies comparing natural to synthetic antibiotics,
as far as response times in patients or the swiftness of killing bacteria? 
Shauna

Hi Shauna,
I agree with you that in most cases garlic and echinacea work...if the
correct dose is used. I've found that people who are afraid of herbs use
inadequate dosage and then say that the herbs don't work. 

In an emergency situation, I don't want people to risk their bird's
lives if they are hesitant. It's best if they see a vet and use the
antibiotics in such cases. Not everyone is able to make decisions based
on observed changes in their bird. Some people don't even notice.

When you get into the higher dosages, you must be competent at
observation. You must know when to increase dosage, decrease dosage,
switch to an alternate formula, or stop altogether.

Dosage with herbs is estimated. To my knowledge, there are no formal
studies establishing strict dosage rates. If herbs aren't standardized,
there can't be. Dosage from one lot to another can vary because the
herbs are harvested from different areas, which has an effect on their
potency. Therefore, usage is somewhat dependent on the ability to 'see'
and understand what you are seeing.

We are limited in how we can help using email because we must rely on
the understanding of those asking for help. People interpret things
differently. If someone writes to the list and says 'my bird is panting,
what should I give him?' There are bound to be many different answers
based on what people guess is going on. Maybe the bird is hot, or
frightened, or its lungs are filled with fluid, or it's something
altogether different from any of these. The person asking for help
'sees' panting but doesn't understand why and then expects us to come up
with an answer.

We can't do it. We are just wasting the bird's life-time, so then I say
take it to the vet. On the other hand, if the person says 'my cat almost
got my bird and now it is sitting there panting, I think it is
stressed...what can I give it?' Now the owner is doing some observation
and analysis. Now we might be able to help.

I wouldn't risk suggesting higher dosages to anyone that wasn't able to
use some good judgement. My impression of their good judgement is based
on the quality of information they give us.
gloria 

Drug / Herb Interactions

That's a very good question. Yes they can....depending. You need to
consider what you are doing when you are taking herbs. In Chinese
medicine, for example, some illnesses are considered to result of:
excess or lack of heat; excess or lack of moisture, excess or lack of
cold, etc. A body is considered out of balance if there is excess of
different elements.

A slow digestive tract might be from a cold dampness. In that case, you
would give a warming herb. Many diseases are from a condition of hot
liver. Then a cooling and dampening herb would be given. 

So, if the condition requires a warming herb, you would not want to give
a warming herb at one part of the day and then a cooling herb later in
the day unless it was specifically indicated by the condition of the
body.

You would, however, give herbs apart if they interfered with each other
in other ways, and that is the same if you were treating with drugs. One
instance I can think of is not to give probiotics at the same time as an
antibiotic herb or drug. Give it earlier or later. Other herbs that I
would give separately are the mucopolysaccharide herbs like aloe,
slippery elm, mullein, marshmallow, etc. They might inhibit the
absorption of some chemicals beause they coat the digestive tract.

This is very simplistic, but if you are interested, I could recommend
some books for further reading and studying. There are also a couple of
on-line herb courses that you might be interested in.
gloria

After Antibiotics - therapy

My personal preference for liver protection and also a therapeutic for damage is Lactulose. I also like to add acidopolis (sprinkle) to the food the last few days of antibiotic treatment, and a few days after treatment. I also like to give a B complex shot after treatment. 
Susanne

Don't forget Milk thistle which is proven and safe to aid and heal the liver. Another herb that is supposed to be superior to milk thistle is andrographis. You can read a bit about this herb on the Ayurvedic herbs page under Holistic Modalities.

It is very important to help the digestive tract recover its normal floral balance after antibiotics are used. To help the digestive tract and the liver both, I would combine garlic, milk thistle, digestive enzymes, and a good probiotic containg lactobacillus and bifidophilus. There are a number of probiotics on the market. My personal preference is to use one from the refrigerated section of the heath food store even though it isn't specific for birds.
gloria