Case  Studies

Chronic respiratory infection in Hahns macaw
5/28/00 I just subscribed to your list a few minutes ago. 

I have a Hahn's macaw chick, about six week old, hand-feeding, who has started up with an upper respiratory infection. The last two chicks we had from this pair DIED of upper respiratory in spite of all that "convential medicine" could do.

Since it is the same pair, I have to assume the afflicting organism is the
same, and that I will lose these chicks also unless I do something
different. (The clutchmate is not showing symptoms yet, but
it's probably just a matter of time.)

On advice from other sources (one of them my avian vet,
amazingly) I have acquired Nutribiotic GSE CapsulesPlus and
Echinacea Herb. Both are in the form of gelatin capsules with
powder inside; the GSE are 125mg capsules and the Echinacea
are 380mg capsules.

Can anyone please help me figure the correct dosage/amount
to administer to my 150mg macaw chick? The vet just said "open
the capsule and sprinkle a little bit of it into the hand-feeding
formula." Ok, sure, but what's a "little bit?" A pinch? Half the
capsule? I prefer to be more exact, especially when I feel that
my chick's life is on the line.

I truly apologize for jumping in here like this and immediately
"demanding" help/answers, but I haven't been able to find the
information anywhere else. I will really appreciate any info
(and so will my poor little macaw chicks).

I'm a firm believer that the body strives to remain healthy and to heal
itself. When it is unable to do so, it lacks the tools. Most tools
should be supplied by the diet. When the body needs extra tools, they
can be supplied by the nutrients and chemical components found in herbs.

Here is a list of nutritional tools that your bird can use for its sinus
condition.
 
Vitamin A in the form of plant pigments/carotenes. The plant form is
water soluable so you can give large amounts without fearing toxicity.
Respiratory problems especially benefit from vitamin A.  Normally I
suggest feeding vegetables and fruits high in beta carotene, but in this
case the bird would benefit from higher concentrations found in natural
supplements. Add any or a combination of the following green food
supplements: spirulina, chlorell, wheat grass, barley grass. You might
be able to find a good combination of these at the health food store. I
think one is called Green Magma. (I call it green gag-ma because I hate
the taste.)

Probiotics - Why probiotics? What does a health intestinal tract have to
do with a sinus infection? Healthy gut flora enhances nutrient
absorption from food and increase the production of nutrients.

Quercetin/bromelain - protects against allergens and boosts the immune
system.

Bee pollen- boosts the immune system

Echinacea - boost the immune system. antibiotic, antiviral. synergistic
with garlic.

flax seed oil - from refrigerated section and keep refrigerated...or any
good oil blend that contains flax, borage, primrose, etc

Vitamin C - yes, normal health birds produce their own. This isn't a
normal healthy bird so it needs more.

Garlic - antibiotic, antifungal. Let it stink. synergistic with
echinacea.

How to give:
green foods: mix with all the dry formula you will use for the next two
weeks. Add enough to the dry formula so when formula is prepared, it
will turn a light green color. If you use spirulina, it will turn
darker...pea soup green. Spirulina has more blue/gree pigments than the
grasses. Don't be afraid to feed this to healthy birds either. All my
babies get this in every feeding.

Most of the ingredients are available in powdered capsules so all you
have to do is open the capsules....some things come in tablet form. For
this, I use a mortar and pestle to grind the tablets into powder. If
using a liquid, add it by drops to the formula. Don't nuke herbs for
healing.

Doses: you will have to extrapolate down from the human doses on the
labels. My standard dose is one capsule per 50cc formula.

Vitamin C is different depending on how many milligrams per capsule or
tablet. Normally the body tells you how much vitamin C it needs because
of the bowel tolerance phenomenon. When the body needs a lot of vitamin
C, it will take a lot before the body produces diarrhea, indicating that
the dose is too high. Then you back off the dose until there is no more
diarrhea. When a body doesn't need as much vitamin C, diarrhea is
produced at a lower dose. Start with 100 mg twice a day.
 
My standard 'dose' for most herbs is one capsule of each herb per 50cc
prepared handfeeding formula. I trust that dose with the herbs that I've
used. I haven't used GSE medicinally.

There are several herbs you can use to aid the respiratory system. They
have different functions, so you need to know what kind of effect you
are looking for.

Some herbs are expectorants, which stimulate the nerves and muscles of
the respiratory system. I haven't used any of these on birds, so I won't
mention them.

Some herbs are respiratory relaxants, which allow mucus to flow, so
expectorants can help to expel respiratory toxins. Herbs in this
category that I consider to be safe for birds are: aniseed, coltsfoot,
flax seed, plantain, and thyme.

Some herbs act as respiratory 'normalizers', which means they adapt
their action according to what is needed by the body. Two of these herbs
are mullein and lobelia. Lobelia, however is a dangerous herb to work
with, so I would opt for  mullein.

Some herbs are considered soothing to mucus membranes, protecting them
and allowing healing to take place. These herbs include: Comfrey,
coltsfoot, flax seed, marshmallow, and mullein.

Mucus formation by the body is good in some ways because it allows the
body to rid itself of toxins. Excess mucus, on the other hand, will
allow the build up of waste that the body can't get rid of. One way to
reduce excess mucus production is to limit mucus producing foods in the
diet. These foods are: dairy, eggs, gluten-rich grains(wheat, oats, rye,
barley), sugar, and starchy vegetables. Some very sick babies have done
well by eliminating hand feeding formula for a few feedings and using
slippery elm as the carrier for the herbs. Slippery elm is very
nutritions and has been a traditional respiratory healer in native
american medicine.

Herbs that reduce the buildup of upper respiratory mucus are elder
flower, golden seal, and eyebright. Peppermint is also useful for this.

If I was suspecting a virus, I would combine echinacea, golden seal (or
oregon grape), along with garlic and marshmallow to handfeeding formula
twice a day. I'd make the first two doses strong, see how the babies are
handling it and responding. If they are handling it well but not
responding I would continue with one more strong dose, then cut
subsequent doses back to half a capsule of each per 50cc handfeeding
formula.

It's hard to make recommendations for someone else because you really
have to be there to monitor what is happening and make adjustments as
necessary. If babies are acting chilly, then I substitute astragalus for
echinacea. Echinacea is a cooling herb and astragaglus is a warming
herb. Both are anti-viral. Echinacea is a western herb and astragalus is
an eastern herb.

Under certain circumstances, I might even carefully increase the dosage
over what I normally use...figuring that that desperate measures might
be necessary. Again, that's a judgement call that I can't make without
seeing, feeling, hearing, touching, holding, smelling...You know..

You'll have to be the judge. I have always had very good results with
garlic, but not all people have had the same. There are variables
involved and you don't get the whole story by email.

good luck, keep us posted.  gloria

Thanks for the reply. That is less than I am using, so if you
haven't experienced any toxicity or side effects with
Echinacea I'll up it as you recommend.

Actually, Sherlock (that's his name, he's already sold) looks
and acts just fine. My panic is all about the ones that died
before - if I cleaned up his nostrils and let you examine him,
you wouldn't suspect a thing wrong. He's eating good, active,
playing with the weaning foods offered in the brooder
(cheerios and puffed millet), crop emptying normally, not
fluffed, gaining weight, etc. Healthy hand-feeding baby ...
except for that stuff coming out of his nostrils!!

Necropsies on the last two chicks (from nearly two years
ago, the parents are infrequent breeders) showed an
assortment of bacteria (pseudomonas among others) and
aspergillus growth all over the air sac membranes. However,
I personally think that the long term of treatment with
harsh drugs such as Itranconazole and Amikacin had nearly
as much to do with their deaths as the organisms that were
blamed (just my opinion).

I suppose there are people who seek out holistic healing
and herbal remedies by choice, but surely there are others
like me who turn to holistic means in desperation when
conventional medicine fails them.

I'll belatedly tell you a little about myself so you have an
idea at what level to respond to me. I've been breeding
cockatiels, budgies, and assorted parrots for about nine
years and am a veterinary technician. Although I now work
for the Tulsa SPCA clinic where we only see dogs and cats,
I started out as an avian vet tech and am competent to
do just about anything short of surgery on birds. My avian
vet is very comfortable with me and my level of expertise;
she routinely allows me to stock medications and administer
them myself based on telephone consultations or just my
own experience when it's something I'm very familiar with -
such as a candida infection in a baby cockatiel's crop.
I've pulled birds through a couple of the scarier diseases
(psittacosis and polyoma) and normally cope with minor
injuries, broken legs, bacterial and fungal infections, etc.
on my own. I also rescue and rehabilitate parrots and
deal with their medical and behavioral problems, including
malnutrition, fatty liver, plucking, self-mutilation, etc. I also
write for the QPS (Quaker Parakeet Society) newsletter
and serve as a consultant on several avian mailing lists.
I am generally more comfortable giving advice than asking
for it! <G>

However, except for the occasional use of Naturade's
Aloe Detox formula to help cleanse a chick's system
during and after illness, particularly involving sour or
slow crop problems, I'm brand new to holistic/herbal
remedies. I'm used to worrying about the side effects and
toxicity of the medicines I've used for years, and although
I have a better track record than many, I'm not happy
with my failures. I've finally gotten around to thinking
"there has to be a better way" and I'm hoping that this
is it. The good news is, if you teach me to use holistic
and herbal remedies successfully, you will also be
reaching hundreds of other pet bird owners and
breeders who routinely look to me for advice and help.
(I apologize if that sounds arrogant - I don't mean it
that way - it's just true.)

We presently have two pet quakers, Bear and
Beaker, a pet LSC cockatoo named Coco who is a rescue,
an exceptionally mellow and well-behaved dog named
Merlin, and are breeding cockatiels, English budgies,
quakers (blue and green), parrotlets, and the one pair
of Hahn's macaws. The cockatiels and English budgies
we show, but we haven't made it out of novice level
with either.

Anyway, I'm glad to be here and look forward to learning
ways to help birds that don't sometimes do almost as much
harm as good.

You've confused me. <g> If what I recommended is 'less' than you are
using, then how would you 'up' it? I haven't seen any side effects with
echinacea, but that doesn't mean an allergic reaction can't occur. I
know people who have reacted badly to echinacea. Allergies, as you know,
are an individual thing, so always watch closely when treating with
anything..even allopathic drugs.
>
> Actually, Sherlock (that's his name, he's already sold) looks
> and acts just fine. My panic is all about the ones that died
> before - if I cleaned up his nostrils and let you examine him,
> you wouldn't suspect a thing wrong. He's eating good, active,
> playing with the weaning foods offered in the brooder
> (cheerios and puffed millet), crop emptying normally, not
> fluffed, gaining weight, etc. Healthy hand-feeding baby ...
> except for that stuff coming out of his nostrils!!
>
> Necropsies on the last two chicks (from nearly two years
> ago, the parents are infrequent breeders) showed an
> assortment of bacteria (pseudomonas among others) and
> aspergillus growth all over the air sac membranes. However,
> I personally think that the long term of treatment with
> harsh drugs such as Itranconazole and Amikacin had nearly
> as much to do with their deaths as the organisms that were
> blamed (just my opinion).

The asper is a concern. I thought of it last night but didn't get around
to asking you. Definitely, then, use garlic which deals with fungus and
is carried to all parts of the body.

Echinacea doesn't address fungus. GSE is supposed to, but keep in mind
that GSE will wipe out all normal flora as drug-type antibiotics can. If
you use GSE, you must also use probiotics to replace normal internal
flora. Also, I don't know if GSE goes systemic. I know it will wipe out
the digestive tract, but is it carried in the blood stream to other
parts of the body? I don't know. GSE's main claim to fame is as a
disinfectant and people use it in water to help prevent yeast.
>
> I suppose there are people who seek out holistic healing
> and herbal remedies by choice, but surely there are others
> like me who turn to holistic means in desperation when
> conventional medicine fails them.

Yes there are. This is valid for some health problems because holistic
methods have been sucessful where allopathic methods have been unable to
help. They each can play a role in healing though. Allopathic methods
are most useful for conditions that are acute with rapid onset. Holistic
methods typically are slower, gentler, and surer. They are most
applicable for chronic conditions and for prevention.
>
> I'll belatedly tell you a little about myself so you have an
> idea at what level to respond to me. I've been breeding
> cockatiels, budgies, and assorted parrots for about nine
> years and am a veterinary technician. Although I now work
> for the Tulsa SPCA clinic where we only see dogs and cats,
> I started out as an avian vet tech and am competent to
> do just about anything short of surgery on birds. My avian
> vet is very comfortable with me and my level of expertise;
> she routinely allows me to stock medications and administer
> them myself based on telephone consultations or just my
> own experience when it's something I'm very familiar with -
> such as a candida infection in a baby cockatiel's crop.
> I've pulled birds through a couple of the scarier diseases
> (psittacosis and polyoma) and normally cope with minor
> injuries, broken legs, bacterial and fungal infections, etc.
> on my own. I also rescue and rehabilitate parrots and
> deal with their medical and behavioral problems, including
> malnutrition, fatty liver, plucking, self-mutilation, etc. I also
> write for the QPS (Quaker Parakeet Society) newsletter
> and serve as a consultant on several avian mailing lists.
> I am generally more comfortable giving advice than asking
> for it! <G>
>
> However, except for the occasional use of Naturade's
> Aloe Detox formula to help cleanse a chick's system
> during and after illness, particularly involving sour or
> slow crop problems, I'm brand new to holistic/herbal
> remedies. I'm used to worrying about the side effects and
> toxicity of the medicines I've used for years, and although
> I have a better track record than many, I'm not happy
> with my failures. I've finally gotten around to thinking
> "there has to be a better way" and I'm hoping that this
> is it. The good news is, if you teach me to use holistic
> and herbal remedies successfully, you will also be
> reaching hundreds of other pet bird owners and
> breeders who routinely look to me for advice and help.
> (I apologize if that sounds arrogant - I don't mean it
> that way - it's just true.)

I'd recommend a couple of good books to get you started. Since you have
a tech background, I think you would be more interested in those that
cite scientific research. I take it you are more interested in western
herbs than the othe modalities like accupuncture, homeopathy, flower
remedies, etc?  We don't really 'teach' anything on this list, but offer
suggestions based on our own experience. Mary Connely is an herbalist
that is just now putting together an Herbs for Pets online course. You
might be interested in that. I believe her other online herbs course
went over quite successfullly.

Has anyone on this list taken Mary's online herbs course?
>
> We presently have two pet quakers, Bear and
> Beaker, a pet LSC cockatoo named Coco who is a rescue,
> an exceptionally mellow and well-behaved dog named
> Merlin, and are breeding cockatiels, English budgies,
> quakers (blue and green), parrotlets, and the one pair
> of Hahn's macaws. The cockatiels and English budgies
> we show, but we haven't made it out of novice level
> with either.
>
> Anyway, I'm glad to be here and look forward to learning
> ways to help birds that don't sometimes do almost as much
> harm as good.

Good to have you, hope we can help.

gloria

Sorry about that. I meant to say that I'm using less than
that now. Does it make sense now? <G>

Is GSE considered a holistic remedy and therefore an
appropriate topic for discussion here? If so, I'll share
a little of what I've learned about it on another list
where people have been using it on birds, and my own
bit of personal experience.

Regarding my personal experience, it's an ongoing experiment.
Before my hysterectomy, I used to get urinary tract
infections (UTIs) 5 or 6 times a year. Now I get maybe one a
year, but they're still pretty bad when I do get them. I also
am extremely susceptible to Candida Albicans, and invariably
get a horrible yeast infection that causes me more grief than
the original problem if I take the antibiotic that is usually
prescribed for the UTI.

It's a dilemma for me, and it surfaced last Thursday night, just
as I was going to bed, when the symptoms of a UTI started up.
I got dressed again and ran to the 24-hour Walgreens for
phenazopyridine (can I say that here? <G>) and (yuck!) some
of that nasty cranberry juice that's supposed to help. Earlier
on Thursday was when Sherlock started being snotty, so I
already had a trip to the health food store scheduled to get
Echinacea for him. When I got there on Friday, I decided to
try some GSE, and use the Echinacea on myself as well. I also
found some cranberry tablets (CranActin), and those made
my day. I HATE cranberry juice.

I took my first doses on Friday night, and continued to take
the CranActin, GSE, and Echinacea three times a day with
meals over the weekend. I'm delighted to report that my
symptoms began to abate late Saturday night, and by Sunday
afternoon I was able to stop taking the phenazopyridine. Now,
I have used cranberry (juice) before, and it did help, but not
that quickly. No one has really given me any indication that
Echinacea would resolve a UTI that quickly, so I have to credit
the GSE for the fast relief. Furthermore, I don't show any signs
of coming down with a yeast infection, and I haven't had the
intestinal or gastric discomforts that usually accompany taking
antibiotics (at least for me). I'll wait out the week - or 10 days -
to be sure that I'm "cured" and don't have a yeast infection
before I make a final judgment, but right now I'd have to say
I'm very pleased with the way GSE has worked for me.

In spite of your reservations, I've decided to keep on with
the GSE for Sherlock in addition to the Echinacea - it can
hardly be worse for him than the "convential" alternatives,
and I've gotten the drops and been able to compute a
dosage for him. If anyone's interested, I can share that
information, and I will keep you posted on Sherlock's progress.
Right now he's about the same; he still has clear mucus
coming out of his nostrils, but seems to be fine in every
other way. His appetite certainly hasn't suffered! <G>

I'm not sure I understand what all Echinacea is supposed
to be able to do for Sherlock, but I do know that GSE
is supposed to be antimicrobial  in a way that affects
bacteria, fungi, and viruses. I know that sounds suspiciously
quackish, but remember that many people have the same
reaction to the claims made for multi-purpose herbs that
you KNOW work as "advertised." So, if GSE really does what
they say it does, I'm covering all the bases for Sherlock,
something I can't do with any other product that I know of.

Heike

There's a lot of information about Echinacea available. It is one of the
best studied herbs and this includes clinical studies. I'm staring at
two books sitting next to my computer: "Echinacea" by Daniel B Mowrey,
PhD ISBN 0-879-83-610-5 and "The Healing Power of Echinacea and
Goldenseal" by Paul Bergner ISBN 0-7615-0809-0. Both of these books
discuss the history of the herb's use, clinical research, and
applications for its use in different disease conditions. In addition to
these two books that study the herb in-depth, I have at least 15 other
herb books written by herbalists or holistic practitioners who all value
the healing powers of echinacea.

For those who have wondered, Echinacea is pronounced: eck-i-NAY-see-ah.
I'm kind of lazy and pronounce it eck-i-NAY-sha. It is the purple cone
flower, of which there are three subspecies preferred for healing -
augustfolia, pallida, and purpurea - each having different specialties.
Together, these herbs have a variety of uses: wound healing, skin
disease, allergies, immune stimulant, antiviral, antifungal, antibiotic,
respiratory, arthritis and inflammation, and cancer.

It was first introduced in the late 1800's and because of it's almost
miraculous healing abilities enjoyed wide popularity by the physicians
of the time. Commercial extracts were developed in the early 1900s and
it topped the list of medicines used by physicians. Then around 1920
there was a political movement by the AMA to control and direct the
nature of Medicine. In 1937 natural healing was officially at an end in
the United States. Echinacea went from high visibility to total
obscurity almost immediately.

A German firm, however, picked up the interest, purchased some seeds,
and over the next 60 years used the plant and did the research and
clinical studies throughout Europe. In the 1970's echinacea was
reintroduced into the United States. The irony is that Echinacea is a
native North American healer that we lost for years because of political
maneuvering by the American Medical Association. All of the scientific
validation of this herb was done in Europe.

Wound healing: once bacteria enters the tissue through an injury, it
invades deeper by producing an enzyme called hyaluronidase, which breaks
down the integrity of connective tissues of the body. Echinacea has
anti-hyaluronidase action that also helps to regenerate connective
tissue destroyed during infection and injury. It stimulates fibrocytes
(some of the body's defense organisms) arrive quickly at the site of
injury and to produce hyaluronic acid. For this purpose echinacea can be
taken in capsule form and also used as a poultice directly on the
cleaned wound.

Both internal and external echinacea has been sucessfully used for all
kinds of animal bites including: insects, spiders, snakes, mosquito,
fleas etc. From early frontier days there was one case report from a
physician who used echinacea on two children who had been bitten by a
confirmed rabid dog. He dosed them with echinacea internally and
externally for sixty days and they did not contract the disease.
However, this report came at a time when all sorts of wild and
unsubstantiated claims were being made for echinacea. It may have been
true but then again, it might not have been.

The Eclectic Medical Association, a group of physicians who were
attempting to categorise and substantiate claims, were squelched by the
AMA along with everything else in 1937. Still, there still can be found
extensive reports and studies preserved by the Eclectics and other
researchers. They simply are not substantiated.

Immunity:
Immune function is two pronged. Thre is humoral immunity and
cell-mediated immunity. Echinacea affects both forms. Humoral immunity
involves antibodies and B-cells. Cell-mediated immunity involves
T-cells. Other parts of the immune system are white cells called
macrophages, neutrophils, phagocytes and granulocytes (white cells like
monocytes, leucocytes, eosinophils, basophils) and 'killer' cells. All
of these interact with one another to fight off disease and infection.

The polysaccharides contained in Echinacea stimulate the production of
white cells and activates them to secrete interleukin-1. It increases
T-cell activity by 20-30% over control drugs known to posess strong
T-cell stimulating properties.

Allergies:
I posted a couple of days ago about how an allergic response works by
the body's production of histamine and other substances in reaction to
the presence of an allergen. Echinacea reduces this response by
stabilizing the mast sell and increasing its ability to resist breakage
in the presence of allergens. However, echinacea can only do this if the
whole plant is used. Purified extracts do not contain all the echinacea
components.

Antiviral:
There are several differing theories about how echinacea works against
viruses. Some say it involves T-cell stimulation and the production of
interferon. Others say echinacea competes with viruses for receptor
sites on cell membraned surface chemistry. Regardless of how it works,
the most effective preparation has been found to be fresh whole plant
rather than isolated extracts.

Antifungal:
Best if use along with standard antifungal agent. Helps to prevent
reoccurance

Antibiotic:
Fresh whole plant should be used either externally or internally.

Respiratory:
One of the most effective treatments for colds, influenza, tonsillitis,
otitis media, whooping cough and other bronchial ailments. The injected
form of echinacea is faster than the oral form, but both are effective.
(Injected form not available in US)

>From my reading, I've concluded that the best use of echinacea is as an
antiviral and topically as an antibiotic.

I like to use Echinacea and garlic together. My observation is that the
actions of each strengthen and enhance one another.

gloria 

Sorry for the long delay getting back to you with an end to
(this chapter of) our story. I'm changing jobs and working
both right now, which makes for a tough schedule.

Anyway, after my Hahn's macaw chick (formerly called Sherlock
but now Shamrock) had had sinus drainage for over a month in
spite of everything I tried, including Sinustem and SystemaJuv
from Avian Medicine Chest, I had about given up.

Then I read a note on this list about the uses of Goldenseal
and thought it might be worth a try. Having already spent over
$150 for medicines and remedies for this bird, I admit I went
the cheap (and probably not up to this list's standards) route.
I ran across a formula of Echinacea and Goldenseal on sale at
my grocery store, and also picked up some Garlic, remembering
that I had been told that Echinacea and Garlic are synergistic.

I restarted the sinus flushes with GSE, and began putting the
Echinacea, Goldenseal, and Garlic into Shamrock's hand-feeding
formula. After about 4 days I started to see some improvement,
and after six days the drainage FINALLY stopped. I stopped the
sinus flushes but continued the herbals for another four days.
It's now been almost 2 weeks and there has been no relapse,
and Shamrock appears to be perfectly healthy. She's late weaning,
but that's not surprising considering all she's been through.

In the meantime, I came down with a respiratory flu that had
been going around here, which progressed into bronchial
pneumonia, and I"m happy to say that the same mixture, with
the addition of GSE liquid orally, cleared me up, too.

Thanks for all the help and advice; I thought you deserved
to know the "rest of the story." I'll be more active once I'm
back to working ONE job!

Heike